Curse

Horogan Sivoris · Apr 18, 2005, 11:36 AM // 11:36

I didn't know exaclty where to put this, so I put it here. LONG READ WARNING. I've put this on a few other sites too.

Anyway, I just spent the good part of three days playing a wonderfull little game called guild wars.

For those of you that don't know, guild wars is a self proclaimed MMORPG, with a vast world to explore, where the skill you posses is MUCH more important than the level. I digress.

I say self proclaimed MMORPG, because you start out in town, where there are many other players running about etc, however, if you leave town into the wilderness you are on your own. You may however, get some one, 1 person, in to you party, to help you along the way. The 2 person party limit increases as you go along, and at the point I reached last night just before the end of the beta, we could have 6 people in my party.

Because of the small groups, I don't yet feel the "MM" side of this RPG, however, when you've been out in the wild for a few hours, and you hit a town with many people in, it's kinda cool feeling because it's like "Oh God, thank you... "

The skill over level thing is incredibly true, or rather, suprisingly true. You do still need to level up, for the basic reason of getting extra health, so you can take hits for longer. But the damage you do barely changes. In fact, for the most part of the game, the highest weapon damage I _found_ was 13 damage, and there is no strength attribute (From what I could see) that modified that. The only way to do it was to use skills.

As a ranger, I had 25 Energy (Read mana) My favourite four skills that I found at this stage in the game, were Ignite Arrow, Power Shot, Peircing attack and Favourable Winds.

Favourable winds - Summons a spirit for (at my skill) 90 which cause arrows to move twice as fast for +3 damage
Power Shot - +16 damage
Peircing Shot - +10 damage
Ignite Arrow - + 5 damage (last about 15 seconds or so)

(all modifiers were at my skill level at the time)

So before a battle, I would buff by casting Favourable winds (which affects rangers in my party too) and Ignite arrow. Imediately, I'm doing
13+5+3= 22 damage. Then with my remaining energy *which I would often wait for it to charge up* I would bounce between power shot and piercing. Hitting the odd enemy with a lucky 50 damage + Ignite Arrow damage but generally doing a total of 35-45 damage (there is the slight randomness there)

With the skills, you can "stack them up" while the charge, basically, so long as you are actually casting one currently, you can hit another skill that will then cast once the current skill is finished casting. This makes for some very quick thinking in battles, you need to be ready.

Another thing I like about the game is the Morale, but I feel it should have been worked diferently.

Basically when you die, you get -15% to you stats (which can drop to 60) because you are weakened by death, this will "raise" again, as you kill monsters. If you, however, kill a boss, you can get above zero, and recive what seemed to be up to +10% (five bosses X 2% each time) I think that is the cap. If you enter a town, this modifier disapears. So if you hit minus sixty, you might as well head back to town and try again (monsters respawn when you leave an area)

The way I feel it should have been done, is modifiers should be available from ALL monsters, not just bosses. It should go to about 50 in each direction and should be hard to attain, but keep the loosing side the same (-15 when you die). As you fight and fight, you should get the odd percentage here and there, and the 2% from boss etc, and It shouldn't dissapear when you enter town. It should remain. However, it should decrease/increase towards 0 with time.

The reason I say this is because that way, when you have just 1 quick kill the boss mission just outside town, you get your + 2, then you end up loosing it straight away when you report back to town. Which sucks. And personally, I'd feel more of an achievement, if I fought my way back to 0 than ran in to town like a baby.

Here's my favourite part about guild wars. THE SALVAGE SYSTEM. In this game, you DO NOT, repeat that DO NOT find, or even "buy" armour. Instead you buy a salvage kit, and pick up the DD (read, Dedicated Drops) that monsters drop, for instance, pieces of there armour, and salvage it, which you then turn the item in to it's base matierial (e.g. Iron ingots, Cloth, Leather hides) and take it to a crafter, and you give him the leather or whatever, and a small fee, and he gives you shiny new armour. It works, and it beats the whole "he look, i just bashed this guys armour for about half an hour with this sword, but it still looks good to me so I'll wear it)

You do however find weapons. You can get these customised (so far, add 20% damage) but I've not seen any craftable weaps yet. Dunno If they exists.

Oh, and by the way, the dedicated Drop system rules. No more noobs pinching all the good drops.

Graphically, It's not outstanding, heck my PC can run it on full specs, but in some areas, the ground texture disapears and turns to white (!?) .but that is easily, if temporarily, fixed by changing the graphics detail slide bar down and back up again, but It does look nice, and there are some pretty damn sweet landscapes, pevil has a few nice shots, I'll get her to post them.

The game thus far runs without lag (the odd bit every like... 3 hours or something) and is optimised for even dial up. And the streaming system is nice, it just pops up here and there to say "hey, look, i'm streaming here buddy" even though it doesn't affect the game speed or anything, then It pops up when you exit to total the amount of streams.

What I am worried about though is that is an obvious security flaw for any one who is crooked in the GW HQ. It streams stuff to your PC with out you really even noticing it. Anyway, I think that's all I have to say, if you read all this, go give your eyes a rest.

I have to say, it's nice to see a game that's a little fresher compared to the rest of the currently stagnating RPG games out there.

Oh, I didn't PVP yet (except once where I think you have to) so I can't comment on it.
I'd give guild wars thus far about 9.3 /10

Mephala · Apr 18, 2005, 11:50 AM // 11:50

I was a ranger also. I had a longbow base damage 11-18, with a bow grip added for +5, marksmenship of 7 plus a face cloth (for the life of me I can't remember what that is called) for +1 marksmenship, mana of 25, with Powershot I could hit for 35+ and several time I hit for 45+. I think maybe alot of it may be what you find and how you build onto it, like with the bow grip. I also found a rune that increased my winderness survival by +5 that could be combined on anything.
At the of the BWE, my first I was just a few exp over level 9. But I also had fun finding things I new my teammates could use, thinking, "cool, pax can use this, I can't wait to give it to him"
Loving the game and am now in withdrawl.

Horogan Sivoris · Apr 18, 2005, 01:10 PM // 13:10

Lol, quick question - how do you add the bow grips etc? blacksmith? I found many runes, but couldn't find a use. *is noobish*

Aroc · Apr 18, 2005, 08:27 PM // 20:27

The big thing your missing is the abillity to specialize in certain areas. To increase your bow damage you would add attribute points to marksmanship. I just stumbled across this this weekend. Hit "H" and it brings up the "Hero" menu. This is where you can increase things such as Marksmanship, Expertise, Beast Mastery, and so on. So if you want to specialize in doing damage (which is what I chose to do along with Beast Mastery) you would add to marksmanship thus increasing your damage significantly. On an elevated plane I hit for 60+ a couple of times on the Surmia mission. Marksmanship also improves your chance of landing a critical blow whereas Beast Mastery improves the chance of your animal landing a critical blow.

Sin · Apr 18, 2005, 09:54 PM // 21:54

Double click a bow grip or string, and click the bow to be modified, if it is already upgraded by that component you get a warning that the new upgrade will replace the old one otherwise, it is applied. Swords, axes, hammers, staffs, canes, etc. are upgraded the same way. As far as I know Runes are applied to armour the same way. I Don't know if they can be applied to other things, too much else of GuildWars to look at and wanted to be out in missions helping teams get through one mission or another more than playing with upgrades.

Personally I think the morale system works as it should, canceling once you get to town is very credible as then those who would find an area and just go out with henches, kill the boss, come back in, go back out, etc. Could have 50 morale very fast from "Morale farming." In considering the morale mechanics keep in mind that defense is stronger than offense by design in GuildWars, or so I have come to understand listening to the Alpha and Beta testers who post here, as well as by my own observations. What I mean is Morale couldn't be on equal footing with death penalty without creating an imbalance to a fundamental to the game's design that, in my humble opinion, allows for a dynamic battle structure without needing high levels. This appears necessary to emphasize relying on skill use and choices to overcome your opponent.

Example gleaned from the commentary by Alphas and Betas as well as my limited guild v guild experience: 2 teams in guild v guild, where if one could attain 50 percent morale boost they would overcome the regular defenses of the other as though the defense didn't exist. As morale and death penalty are applied now the 60% death penalty weakens you and your ability to attack while an opponent with 10% morale boost is greatly increased in effectiveness, yet, the defense of a 60% DP team is not obliterated as though non-existent. Now with the 50% morale to 50% death penalty as you are suggesting "should" be (Akin to comparing this to some other game that it is not, looking for some "old familiar" exploitable grind.) the team with the 50% morale boost would be 3 times more effective. The competitiveness of guild v guild would be lost in that the team that has first death while the other team has moral boost would more often just quit. The exponential differential too expensive. All Alpha and Beta Testers who can shed better light on this please do. This is just my take on it and I very well could be misunderstanding.

Epinephrine · Apr 19, 2005, 01:44 PM // 13:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horogan Sivoris

For those of you that don't know, guild wars is a self proclaimed MMORPG, with a vast world to explore, where the skill you posses is MUCH more important than the level. I digress.

I just have to comment here to say that GW is not a self proclaimed MMORPG, it is a CORPG (as declared numerous times by Jeff Strain). I haven't enjoyed any MMORPG to date, but I enjoyed the instanced questing in Diablo 2 LoD and GW.

Sin · Apr 19, 2005, 05:45 PM // 17:45

I think this link is one that will help.

Another link regarding it not being an mmorpg.

Because it isn't an mmorpg.

Horogan Sivoris · Apr 19, 2005, 11:45 PM // 23:45

Sorry about that. If you would prefer, I'll change it to read "as proclaimed by many games reviews" My mistake, Although looking forward to this game, I haven't been following it heavily.

Any hoodle

On the Morale/DP thing - My examples of 50 either way, were just examples. I'll digress more in to my suggestion.

Let's say you have been fighting for an hour or two, killed many bosses, an attained 50% Morale Boost. This would decrease, Much faster, than if you had a -50% which would decrease slowly, and the only effective way to raise it back to zero would be to fight.

To avoid GvG/PvP over powering I suppose you could implement some kind of system that ignores these factors. For instance, you could have two "instances" of Morale and DP. A PvE instance, and a PvP instance. Two completely different measurements. So that you couldn't farm them in PvP.

Another Idea I just sprouted, would be to have the Morale limited by the amount of party members. For instance, 1 person on his own, could have up to 50%, 2 people could have 40, 3 - 30, 4 - 20, 5 - 10 per example. Basically, if you had a part of 2, the highest each person could achieve, could be 40. (all examples)

To stop farming all together, add a monster based limit. E.g. Killing the same boss twice in X amount of time doesn't add as much as It did the first time. Killing the same group of monsters etc doesn't do as much as it did the first time. It could even work the other way around, being kill twice by the same monster is more depressing than being killed by it once.

"Decay rates" could be as follows

Morale Boost would decay the fastest, using per example the following formulae. X = Base rate of decay

in a wild area whilst inactive
X x 1.5
in a wild are whilst active (e.g fighting etc)
X x 0.5 = Y, Y + Monster/Boss killing Modifier
in a town whist inactive
X x 2
in a town whilst active (buying from outfitters etc)
X x 1.7

And Death Penalty would decay the slowest

in a wild area whist inactive
X x 0.5
in a wild are whilst active (e.g. Fighting etc)
X x 0.5 = Y, Y + Monster/Boss killing Modifier
in a town whilst inactive
X x 0.1
in a town whilst active (buying from outfitters etc)
X x 0.1

Sin · Apr 20, 2005, 12:53 AM // 00:53

The timing merely exacerbates the imbalance. Are you for real or just need to post threads for sake of something else? You didn't look at one reality to how the game works, the current state, and why it's that way appears meaningless to you.

I would address what you said further but it is so far off from how the game works that to do so is to waste more time than necessary. It'd be different if you actually cared about the responses and took a look at what they are saying. Instead you just carry on with your redesign of the structure in a way that makes it worse, and this is a rather intersting puzzle as to why you need to do that.

Horogan Sivoris · Apr 20, 2005, 11:42 AM // 11:42

I'm not going to argue, Just going to say that if you disagree, like you did, say so, with out insulting the thought I put in to the idea, and asking me if I am for real.

I see no way in which this would unbalance the game, because I'm pretty sure that in my original post, I said, and I quote

Quote:

and should be hard to attain

I'm in no way talking about getting this propose +50%, which could easily still be plus 10%, in a matter of minutes, or even hours, and once you DO hit the +X% I'm not talking about making easy to maintain that level either.

The idea behind my post is that If you survive a larger battle, or manage to survive a more mid-sized battle, but against tougher monsters, then you might be able to hit that 50% cap, OR EVEN 10%. The theory behind my idea is that no matter what %age the cap is at, you make it more worth while to get there, and make it harder to maintain, without stupidly loosing it because you entered town. The death penalty works too, because this is easy to attain, and hard to get rid of. If you are having problems with a particular area because you hit the max cap of minus whatever, you back track to kill monsters to raise it back to zero, or If you don't want to, you could sit an wait it out, do some trading, talk to friends and share tales (forget you'r troubles) or simply go get some lunch while it drops.

To reply directly to this -

Quote:

The timing merely exacerbates the imbalance. Are you for real or just need to post threads for sake of something else? You didn't look at one reality to how the game works, the current state, and why it's that way appears meaningless to you.

A. Do not be rude, presumptuous and offensive.
B. I know how the game works, I know WHY the game is the way it is, I am merely suggestion that more people may enjoy the game that little bit more if it worked slightly differently.
C. I do not undestand what this means:
"why it's that way appears meaningless to you."
If you mean, "the way the game runs appears meaningless to me" The reason is simple, what Is the point in defeating these almighty beasts, or being horibly slaughtered, be lucky enough to live again, only to forget ebout it? Monsters don't drop armour because it's realistic. If I killed you, I wouldn't forget about it. If you killed me, and I somehow was ressurected, I (assume) I'd still remember it. (Can't say, never been killed before)

I don't care if you don't read this, though I assume that you might, If you do, I would like you to point me in the direction of a thread where you agree with what has been said.

I shall PM you personally, with more.

Sin · Apr 20, 2005, 01:01 PM // 13:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horogan Sivoris

I'm not going to argue, Just going to say that if you disagree, like you did, say so, with out insulting the thought I put in to the idea, and asking me if I am for real.

You are the only one insulting your thought by feeling insulted. You aren't looking at how the game works only modifying something that caught your eye as something that could be exploited. Watch...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horogan Sivoris

I see no way in which this would unbalance the game, because I'm pretty sure that in my original post, I said, and I quote

Quote:

and should be hard to attain

I'm in no way talking about getting this propose +50%, which could easily still be plus 10%, in a matter of minutes, or even hours, and once you DO hit the +X% I'm not talking about making easy to maintain that level either.

The idea behind my post is that If you survive a larger battle, or manage to survive a more mid-sized battle, but against tougher monsters, then you might be able to hit that 50% cap, OR EVEN 10%. The theory behind my idea is that no matter what %age the cap is at, you make it more worth while to get there, and make it harder to maintain, without stupidly loosing it because you entered town. The death penalty works too, because this is easy to attain, and hard to get rid of. If you are having problems with a particular area because you hit the max cap of minus whatever, you back track to kill monsters to raise it back to zero, or If you don't want to, you could sit an wait it out, do some trading, talk to friends and share tales (forget you'r troubles) or simply go get some lunch while it drops.

Explain how you this is not another grind system, another hold over from traditional rpg ideas? Do you not see the carrot on the stick created on the morale side and the digressive nature of battle enthusiasm you are promoting by the lingering death penalty? How long would it take to get rid of a 60% death penalty if it didn't disappear in town and dissipates slower than morale? Have you considered how much of this is connected to the root of the entire game mechanics and how these mechanics as they are are why this game is fun to play? Understand we all were well conditioned to look for this in every rpg we played. We expect it somwhere, somehow.

No sir I will not relent on account of your specious argument of personal attacks. I asked a question because I had an honest concern for your sincerety in making such a proposition irrespective of being informed of how this idea negatively impacts the game. Whilst you private messaged me about rudeness I submit that the only rudeness that has occured is your unwillingness to actually consider what has been said and that there hasn't been much response to your idea for the value it derives in fact.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horogan Sivoris

To reply directly to this -

A. Do not be rude, presumptuous and offensive.
B. I know how the game works, I know WHY the game is the way it is, I am merely suggestion that more people may enjoy the game that little bit more if it worked slightly differently.
C. I do not undestand what this means:
"why it's that way appears meaningless to you."
If you mean, "the way the game runs appears meaningless to me" The reason is simple, what Is the point in defeating these almighty beasts, or being horibly slaughtered, be lucky enough to live again, only to forget ebout it? Monsters don't drop armour because it's realistic. If I killed you, I wouldn't forget about it. If you killed me, and I somehow was ressurected, I (assume) I'd still remember it. (Can't say, never been killed before)

I don't care if you don't read this, though I assume that you might, If you do, I would like you to point me in the direction of a thread where you agree with what has been said.

I shall PM you personally, with more.

Please note my first response to what you suggested.

Look you telling me you know this or that or saying I am rude is the only rudeness taking place--claiming some high ground in response to again believing someone else is claiming some high ground on you. I commented about your idea, you can respond to that or acknowledge some other facet of it that would only demonstrate this facet was more important to you than the original purpose for your post.

As far as I can see the belief in rudeness or whatever you are perceiving is to avoid the serious truth that has been laid before you of what you didn't consider including how few care, or more importantly, know something like this would never be implemented because it is a balance breaker to the nth degree. What appears obvious is you have one thing you think would be neat and want to promote it. Well you did and have gotten some feedback, but it wasn't the feedback you wanted so now you wanna look for the personal attacks in it, some bias you can claim to negate the justified, accurate, and proper feedback you received (Again my original post. )Make note: This too is feedback to the presumptive rude and absolutely incompetent position you have taken to receiving feedback that didn't agree with you where that feedback went into some reasonable and constructive detail as to why. I apologize for not being willing to set aside the game mechanics as they are, however, and I know it's hard to believe, you are not the only one who knows how the game works and yet, frankly, I would doubt anyone knows it all that well but Alpha and Beta testers since it isn't finished all other players really haven't played that much. Took me 5 BWE's and listening to the Alpha's and Betas by their posts to fully comprehend, accept, and appreciate it, though knowing it only by what experience I had in game play.

Hold to the idea my friend that what one knows is always subject to change without notice. Accept we both know the game but also accept we know it differently, and in what you are suggesting is a rather extensive change to the game mechanics that is not necessary, and although to you it might be more fun, all I see is a new form of grind being brought into play. As I am sure you are well aware seeing you know how the game works grinds are a form of "taboo" when it comes to GuildWars. I am truly sorry I pointed out the grind factor to your proposal as I had no idea that would become a personal offensive to you to which you would retaliate. Foolish me, I thought you wanted feedback and were going to actually look at what was said for the constructive light it offered. Not find the negatives and dwell on them because your idea wasn't received as well as you thought it would be.

It appears, irrespective of all fact, reason, and example in the interest of giving feedback that is received in every other way that this shall continue.....

Horogan Sivoris · Apr 20, 2005, 01:53 PM // 13:53

Good ridance.

Again, I feel you will feel compelled to read, even if you do not reply.

I think if you truly thought about what I meant, I am saying I would love to see feedback (positive or negative) but without the personal side coming in to it.

What I do fail to see is how it could be a grind factor, if it were hard to raise to even 12, never mind 50%.

Quote:

How long would it take to get rid of a 60% death penalty if it didn't disappear in town and dissipates slower than morale?

Simple, kill monsters. head to town, come back out, kill monsters. If the monsters are to tough, either rethink your tactics, or back track a little, and kill monsters. By doing this, you can greatly increase the rate at wich it approaches the zero mark.

Just so I'm clear, I assume you mean by "didn't disappear in town" that It no longer instantly dissapears? Not that it doesn't slowly decrease in town?

The idea behind my idea is that you need to think about what you are doing, it brings more challenge to the game, and reward for those that are skilled enough to complete tougher challenges than the should be doing.

If the idea doesn't get implemented (which from the very beggining I highly doubted) It makes no difference to me at all. I just think it would reward people that deserve it, and encourage the weak, or those who think that you can just run in to a fight, from doing it, and as such, increase the overall _Real_ morale of the party. There's not much more irritating that when you have some one in your party that runs of to fight large groups on their own, realises they are going to loose, and if they don't get killed, they run back to the party whilst the party may not be prepared.

My girlfriend also pointed out that it would discourage powergaming, becuase those that die, will have to live with it for a while, they can't just get rid of their problems.

At the end of the day, I think the idea could work very well with the game, because it allows much more diverse gameplay, and enforces team work. (e.g. A group of players should protect the weak)

Illiniskippy · Apr 20, 2005, 06:52 PM // 18:52

I do not like what you are proposing. One of the great things about GW is that they got rid of the grind. They also made the death penalty important in a mission, but such that it wont effect your play for long. It is great being able to go back to town and start over, that is one of the great points of the game. If I die multiple times, I dont have to spend hours fighting or waiting jsut to be able to attempt the mission again.

Pevil Lihatuh · Apr 20, 2005, 07:05 PM // 19:05

I'd like some kind of change to the morale thing. I'm hugely against power gaming so i like the idea of there being penalties for people who just rush in and try to slaughter everything, but right now its hardly a penalty. I don't mind it while its around -30% or less, but anything above that and its basically impossible to get rid of without either heading back to the very first area (ok exaggeration a bit but i mean some huge backtracking) or heading to town. But the thing is that if i get to over -30% then it boils down to either struggle on but stand no chance because you're so weakened that anything that was previously 'easy' will slaughter you, or go back to town and immediately set out again, repeating the last hour of play.

I love the principle of it (i.e. encouragement of different tactics to overcome weakness) but I do think it needs some tweaking. Compared to the amount of weakness you can gain, I saw barely any difference with +10% to morale, other than 1 extra energy. I didn't kill monsters any quicker, even the same monster with the same sequence of skills.

I haven't taken part in any PvP so I can't comment on that but perhaps some tweaks could be made to morale and then made so that morale doesn't affect guild victories? Or only the + thing affects a guild victory? *shrugs* feel free to ignore that last bit coz like i say, i haven't tried PvP so i have nothing to base my ideas on

Horogan Sivoris · Apr 20, 2005, 10:05 PM // 22:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illiniskippy

I do not like what you are proposing. One of the great things about GW is that they got rid of the grind. They also made the death penalty important in a mission, but such that it wont effect your play for long. It is great being able to go back to town and start over, that is one of the great points of the game. If I die multiple times, I dont have to spend hours fighting or waiting jsut to be able to attempt the mission again.

Much better reply than some previous ones. The reason that I Suggest it is just because I'd feel better if I went and really did some work to get back what I lost. Feel more sense of achievement, if you will.

Darkmane · Apr 21, 2005, 01:04 AM // 01:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horogan Sivoris

Much better reply than some previous ones. The reason that I Suggest it is just because I'd feel better if I went and really did some work to get back what I lost. Feel more sense of achievement, if you will.

I am going to have to disagree with you here. In a sense you are leaning towards trying to suggest making this game into a longer playing session of some kind. I quit Everquest II and DAOC, (yes I played them both) at the same time. And I quickly learned the error of my ways of playing (Evercraft II) and DAOC, I cant say anything bad about DAOC because it was a great game and I'll probably miss it. Anywhoo you appear to be creating a process by which I have to either :

1. Wait for death penalty to go,
or
2. Loath the fact that I should/need to log off because my bonus is so high.

I do not see any suggestion about a way to perpetuate the current process of the game. I am sorry, I simply think you have a poor idea for the way the game is meant to be played.

The way it is now I can login and and get a group .. or group with my friends quickly without saying... "Dang guys I cant do a mission right now my penalty is so high because of this 'crappy' group I was in kept dieing over and over."

So you see... I think your idea simply is not good at all to say the least.

Netrol · Apr 21, 2005, 02:36 AM // 02:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aroc

The big thing your missing is the abillity to specialize in certain areas. To increase your bow damage you would add attribute points to marksmanship. I just stumbled across this this weekend. Hit "H" and it brings up the "Hero" menu. This is where you can increase things such as Marksmanship, Expertise, Beast Mastery, and so on. So if you want to specialize in doing damage (which is what I chose to do along with Beast Mastery) you would add to marksmanship thus increasing your damage significantly. On an elevated plane I hit for 60+ a couple of times on the Surmia mission. Marksmanship also improves your chance of landing a critical blow whereas Beast Mastery improves the chance of your animal landing a critical blow.

Just want to make sure everyone saw this post. I found many players in the last beta event that were totaly unaware of the attribute points. They are not distributed automatically.

Horogan Sivoris · Apr 21, 2005, 11:56 AM // 11:56

You wouldn't have to "wait" you could go get rid of it. And If you were to log out for X amount of time, they could make it dissapear, or such. Although I do agree on the not wanting to log out, though the rate at which I feel it should decay wouldn't last long anyway.

I think my main problem with the way the skill currently works are as follows.

1. People who hit minus 60 often leave the party, which sucks
2. +10 Doesn't really make any difference, it might as well not be there, because it dissapears when you head back from a mission anyway.

3. I guess in whole, the positive side of it sucks. But i think it's stupid that i can just go, "oh look, i died, let's go back to town and i'll be fine, no no... this missing limb will grow back.

I do understand however, that the way it is now, works for the game. I just get the feeling that it should be more of an actual bonus than a "this mission" only bonus.

And good point on the attibutes.

BunnyMaster · Apr 21, 2005, 01:52 PM // 13:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horogan Sivoris

Graphically, It's not outstanding, heck my PC can run it on full specs

That's a nice one.... just because you're PC can run it, it can't be good

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horogan Sivoris

2. +10 Doesn't really make any difference, it might as well not be there, because it dissapears when you head back from a mission anyway.

That's the same with 15DP, not much different either. And, just like the bonus, it disappears while heading back from a mission.

Maybe you're forgetting the part that GW isn't meant to be a MMORPG with loads and loads of PvE: try to see your whole DP/MB-idea within the context of the PvP-part of the game. I hope this will help you think different about the subject.

Sin · Apr 21, 2005, 02:28 PM // 14:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horogan Sivoris

Much better reply than some previous ones. The reason that I Suggest it is just because I'd feel better if I went and really did some work to get back what I lost. Feel more sense of achievement, if you will.

Maybe you also need to re-think what defines your "sense of achievement" when playing a different game than what your used to? Many came into GuildWars with the expectation of the things they had seen in other games that they assumed were just like it. They came to understand later that these things aren't part of the game by design. Your current sense of achievement appears to be the good old grind, to be a return to those previous ways that this game is purposefully leaving behind. Though you said you can't see that, it's irrelevant to all the others who can see it and who are giving you feedback to what you proposed indicating this as well as other problematics with what you proposed.

Please reflect with their comprehension in mind. Maybe consider you didn't explain it well or maybe they misunderstood because so many people try to change the game after playing 1 BWE, there could be many reasons. All of these are part of your reflection which is a necessary one as you are the one that posted the idea, offered up a proposal, and obviously not for it to be ignored but to learn from others of it's accuracy, appeal, and usefulness within the game as they understand it which is only right since what you are proposing will affect them.